This is an edited transcript of Stephen’s questioning of the chair of the Revenue Commissioners, Josephine Feehily, at the Finance Committeeon January 11, 2012. The full transcirpt is here.

Stephen Donnelly:

Virtually all the people in Wicklow who contacted me were quite happy to pay their taxes, but they were quite appalled and angered by the process. I welcome the witness’s repeated and wide-ranging apology. It will go a long way to help in this matter. However, I urge the witness to consider a way of getting that apology across other than in this committee. Much as we might like to think that everybody is tuned into the proceedings of the finance committee, they might not be. Certainly, it would go a long way with the people I spoke to if they heard an apology, be it on radio or television. There must be some way of getting it across more broadly.

Several of my constituents asked me to pose one question in particular. On the basis that there has been an error and it has caused a great deal of distress, is there any process of accountability or a disciplinary process? Will any action be taken? I am not necessarily advocating that any should be, but I was asked by numerous constituents if any disciplinary action or other action was being taken within the Revenue Commissioners as a result of this.

Arrears have the potential to bankrupt people. A gentleman I spoke to yesterday told me that €480 was taken out in January, before he received the letter. If one counts that back over four years, it amounts to €24,000 plus interest. He is more than happy to pay the €480 per month, but would not be in a position to pay €24,000. The witnesses say the Revenue Commissioners are statutorily obliged to try to retrieve that €24,000, but will they communicate, or have they already communicated, with any other Department or political body that can find a way to ensure that people such as my constituent are not put into extreme distress?

Ms Vaughan gave a list of taxable benefits to Deputy McGrath earlier. If that is not readily available, perhaps she could find a way of letting people know about them as well. I could not write them down quickly as it was a reasonably long list, although perhaps it is already publicly available.

Josephine Feehily

Deputy Donnelly spoke about people’s anger and said they were happy to pay tax. He asked about accountability. The person who asked the Deputy to pose that question is assuming that this was an error. It was not an error. It was badly handled. Somebody used the expression “administratively sloppy” and I will put my hands up for that. The letters could have been better written.

Stephen Donnelly

That is not what I referring to.

Josephine Feehily

Bad writing is not an error. This data source needed to be on our system and should have been taxed. My job was to tax it as soon as possible on the right basis. The job of my officials was to get that moving as quickly as possible.

Somebody said on “Morning Ireland” last week that if this was a different group it would be a good news story. Public sector reform is working. Data is being shared. We are seamlessly, without getting returns from thousands of people, identifying a data source and taxing it appropriately from the start of the year.

The question of disciplinary action does not arise. On the contrary, I am happy to be here today to account and apologise for the actions of Revenue. I also must pay tribute to the officials in Revenue who have been working very hard in the run-up to Christmas because of the budget changes, conveying information, dealing with telephone calls and dealing with the media. I compliment the way my organisation responded. It is an organisation which can respond and turn out 200 people on a Saturday to answer telephone calls. Maybe that is not the answer the Deputy expected. We did not handle this issue in the best way but we responded to it.

On the Deputy’s question on arrears, I take it the man in question has accepted he has a liability and the figures involved. My dilemma is that if a lot of other people owed such a figure, they would pay us and would pay interest. If I understood the Deputy’s question, the figure is as high as €24,000 which is a serious amount of money. We have all sorts of arrangements in place, such as instalments. It is explicit in our code of practice that we take account of inability to pay and hardship. The man to which the Deputy referred can put his circumstances before us on a case-by-case basis. If he wants to write to me I will be happy to receive his letter. We will apply the same criteria to him that we apply to others who might owe us a figure of that size.

The Deputy cited an individual case to illustrate the broader issue. In a way it illustrates that, within this group, there are people who have material liabilities. My job is to treat them fairly, which involves being fair to people who did report their pensions and paid tax which was deducted at source through the PAYE system from their occupational pensions. A large number of pensioners have done that. I have to be fair to the people who complied in considering our approach to arrears.